GE: Baked Dough Farming in Uniswap

GE Name : Baked Dough Farming in Uniswap

Time frame : 1 month, extensions after that can be voted on a per week basis.

Hypothesis : Realign incentives from Balancer to Uniswap and subsidize gas for Uniswap farming to increase TVL and integrations. Following up with Furthering Growth in 2021 bringing more liquidity to Uniswap will “facilitate users of Argent, Dharma, Rainbow, Zerion and more to be able to use pies with familiar tools.”

Description : This is a 2 part growth experiment that can be broken up into 2 proposals based on community feedback. I believe using both strategies in tandem will create an incredible flywheel for growth.

Step 1: Transfer Balancer incentives to Uniswap

I’m proposing Dough / Eth, BCP, and YPIE incentivised pools. Dough / Eth promotes PieDAO governance. The BCP pool will attract people looking for an easy way to diversify. YPIE is for advanced defi users that will be excited for yield bearing and meta-governance enabled pie vaults. Weekly rewards to be split equally at 50k each for a total of 150k Dough. This will match current incentive Dough emissions. Also, we can keep these rewards vested at the current rate or go more aggressive at 25% distributed liquid matching the Sushiswap Onsen program.

Step 2: Baked Dough Farming

Accessibility and financial inclusion (PieDAO’s 2nd core principle Guiding principles) is impossible with the current gas prices. Regularly restaking under the current rewards structure seems not worth it without significant holdings.

I’m proposing 2 ovens.

1st oven to move Balancer liquidity to Uniswap. Allow users to match eth to their current pool to transfer to Uniswap. (Hopefully, won’t be too hard to do this swap safely at reasonable cost.)

2nd oven to allow Uni LPs to restake their earned dough, on a consistent basis at 100% vesting for 1 year. I would start the vesting countdown to kick off when the rewards program ends. As someone who has held Dough since day 1 I am certain there are others like me that are planning to hold for at least this long. As MoolaManX has pointed out, this would appeal to the pension type of savings crowd.

Metrics : TVL, # addresses holding LP tokens, news coverage, and social media engagement related to this growth experiment.

Definition of Success : This should at least double current TVL. If $11.2 million is what we can do outside of being on Uniswap, having liquidity on Uniswap + integrations + gas savings = explosive growth.

Resources Needed : 150k Dough a week. Developer time to create new ovens. Marketing content prepared for pushing the message out about this GE. A point of contact to do PR and deal with news organizations.

GE Confidence Rate : 11, without ovens 8.75. Without the ovens and if gas prices go up people might stay in Balancer. If BAL APY goes up on CREAM that might also pose a problem without a Uniswap transfer oven. STAKE-Eth was able to attract $3-5 million when they rewarded only the top 100 LPs. I think a traditional farming campaign should be able to do double that.

4 Likes

Hi

I have some questions / suggestions :rofl:

I fully agree with this (especially for the integration in wallets) . Did you also consider the same thing for sushiswap ? It seems that sushiswap will take the lead very soon, if it’s not already the case. So LP would maybe prefer to go on Sushiswap. I’m not sure i know everything about sushi. Is it possible to Farm $sushi only when you are LP in a pool ? (or is there only few pool allowing that ?) Because if it’s the case we need to align the DOUGH rewards on Uniswap to be better than what you can have on Sushiswap.

For BCP and YPIE, are you proposing LP tokens ? so BCP/ETH and YPIE/ETH ? or only BCP as it is actually the case ? (if it’s the later it won’t help to increase liquidity)

I’m not sure i understood this point. Can you detail steps ?
So you have ETH and DOUGH, you put it on Uniswap, you get LP token, then you stack those LP token in a pool on the PieDAO website. And you can redeem your DOUGH.

So you are proposing something like a vault. Where it does that automatically for you ? But then it will have to sell half of the DOUGH you earned for ETH in order to enter the Uniswap pool again. And as you said you have to remove the vesting in order to compound your DOUGH. (so you add a “final vesting” and it’s a good idea )

You also need to pay for the Oven (gas cost) and i think it’s a lot. Especially if we want to create 3 more ovens.

1 Like

I agree with the sentiment here regarding liquidity. My query is whether the existing Balancer DOUGH-WETH pool serves the purpose already. If so, the need to incentivise a Uniswap pool falls away.

I’d add to the general comments about integrations with wallets and so on to say that there are a number of idiosyncrasies that one experiences when using services such as zapper and zerion. Earlier today I was placing an order for $DOUGH via zerion and, inexplicably, it’s aggregation returned the Uniswap pool, which had a 4.7% price impact even for my modest order. My sense is that this is reflective of shortcomings in the aggregators, and the informed user will go direct to the Balancer pool or the PieDAO website. With this in mind, I’d be ambivalent about recalibrating the existing incentive program (which functions well imo) based on shortcomings in other projects, with the better approach being to work with those other project teams to fix their shortcomings.

Anyway, just thought I’d add my anecdote from earlier today. Stay crusty!

1 Like

Hey Cryptouf!

Sushiswap has made some great strides. Zerion shows how much Sushi I’ve earned and Zapper shows my liquidity in the pool. The vice versa isn’t true though, so I have to have tabs from both websites to get the whole picture.

You can farm Sushi only as a Sushiswap LP. The difference in rewards will ultimately depend on how much liquidity is in Uniswap vs. Sushiswap. The real match up is if people will want to earn Sushi or Dough, what governance token users will want to hold.

Uniswap LPs, in ETH.

Yes, it will let you renter the pool with a single asset (Dough). I’m suggesting forcing vesting to use this gas saving compounding so that you can’t exit the pool while auto farming Dough.

Maybe we could take the last of the BAL rewards to pay for gas? I think the treasury will recover the gas costs through Dough appreciating in price with this initiative.

Based on Discord and Twitter observations, the majority of people do not look past Uniswap in the same way most people do not use page 2 of Google results or even use a different search engine other than Google.

Working with project teams is another proposal I plan to write up as well. I think targeting the audience of potential users that look at Uniswap as a factor in their confidence for a project is worthwhile.

2 Likes

I also forgot to add a link to this thread about Uniswap PIP 44 - Seed the DOUGH / ETH Uniswap Pool

Not sure how this applies to us?

Edit: This comment was originally in response to spam

I fully support the migration of balancer liquidity to uniswap, and using an oven. I would like to bear witness to a discussion about if now is the best time to make this migration. I can see the benefits of both sides: balancer protocol has some nice things like non 50/50 pools, and as you stated uniswap is the most prominent AMM.

1 Like

Now seems like a good time before some of the just announced projects start attracting the money we are going after.

Should I break this up into 2 proposals or is there another way we can move forward with moving incentives to Uniswap?

Just chiming in here with some counter-arguments for moving liquidity from Balancer to Uniswap.

1.) The DAO has recently provided liquidity to the Uniswap pool to make it easier for guys to get into the PieDAO ecosystem via Uniswap, so we would actually be limiting exposure in the DeFi ecosystem with this move.

2.) If we migrate everything to Uniswap, we’re loosing out on the BAL incentives that are creating constant DOUGH buy pressure on the market.

3.) Impermanent loss exposure in the Balancer pools is drastically less than in a 50:50 Uniswap pool. For highly volatile assets like DOUGH, it provides a better hedge against market movements, and exposes one deeper into the ecosystem on the PieDAO side of the AMM for each of our products.

4.) Balancer is currently discussing a process to subsidize active usage on their Balancer exchange, by reimbursing gas costs for every trade made on Balancer to be paid out in BAL until v2 rolls out. This should encourage and incentivize heavier usage of their AMM and reduce the pain points of using Balancer for trading until their new release.

5.) Further down the line, as new Pie products enter the ecosystem, we could consolidate rewards into a pool with more than 2 assets, keeping the rewards the same. This move will not be possible in Uniswap, as we’re limited to one trading pair per farm.

I honestly don’t know which route is the best one moving forward, but I think it’s important to get a clear overview of benefits as well as drawbacks from each choice, and then see what is the most beneficial to all :grin:

4 Likes
  1. True, but liquidity is still under 1 million and does not inspire people who are only looking at this market.

  2. We can leave the DAO’s liquidity on Balancer. We would be incentivising LPs to stake in Uniswap.

  3. I’d love to see us in DoDo and Bancor over Uniswap but attracting more people to PieDAO will need to start with Uniswap.

  4. Hmmm, maybe we should not convert Balancer Pies to Vaults just yet then?

  5. Uniswap incentives can be reallocated in a future date.

I appreciate the engagement with the topic! I’m merely an enthusiast and by no means an expert. We should aim for what is best for PieDAO :smiley:

1 Like

Good points, thanks for chiming in!

Something I saw recently was the Liquidity Mining of APY.Finance where they split up their LP rewards between Balancer and Uniswap, focusing on the ETH pair in Uniswap, and a stable pair on Balancer (though, personally I think the other way around makes a lot more sense in terms of IL protection).

Now since we’re already deployed between both quite significantly, maybe it would make sense to consider instead opening up the opposite pair of what’s already there on the counterpart.

So we could have different Pie / DAI pairs, as well as a DOUGH / DAI pair on Uniswap perhaps, to increase our exposure across the different AMMs, while also giving stablecoin entry points into our ecosystem?

Definitely agree with some more AMMs in the future, especially the IL protection from Bancor is a cool case, though perhaps we get that pretty soon in Uniswap too? :grin:

I’m in the same boat as you, only putting some feedback and thoughts here, but perhaps this will help the others to think about this in some certain way? :wink:

2 Likes

Could this be done on Loopring ?

I’d say let’s get a proposal up for incentivising L2 and I’ll support it.

I’d like someone else to write it just in case any of my current proposals pass so I can focus on tracking those.

Im new here and don’t know whats required to incentive these pools .

I don’t know how the treasury works for example.

It does seem though that the Pools on Loopring have been an opportunity missed.

Atm they have 0 liquidity

The treasury is voted on by Dough holders. My understanding of governance is first it’s talked about on Discord, then a more formal discussion happens here, after that there’s a snapshot vote. To spend treasury funds there’s then an on chain vote using Aragon. For some coordination tasks it can be votes gas free on snapshot.

I’m not sure what the threshold is for a snapshot and who controls that exactly but it’s on the roadmap to make governance actions more transparent.

I don’t remember exactly how Loopring incentives came about. At the time I think the incentives were for trading and not adding liquidity so I kept my funds in PieDAO farming instead.

Atm there’s no one entering these pools

Only fees available as incentive, no LRC.

Currently there’s a row on Loopring over exit fees so I wouldn’t advise entering these atm anyway

Rather than post a new proposal I thought I’d post this here as your proposal above comes first but this one is very similar.

@Matt | Loopring#1790 mentioned on Loopring Discord that he would like to get the PieDao pools going over there and would like to see them incentivised .

He posted the current AMM pools below for round 3 and there had been one change with DPI/ETH retained.

Quote
If you want to incentivize liquidity of a token on Loopring L2 in a future round, please fill out this form
https://loopringexchange.typeform.com/to/T0bgsodw.